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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
344
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Posted - 2012.12.23 19:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Decrease player base is not good for busniss. See how criple all mmorpg are with less player base.... you need to balance everything not nerf here and there hopes player A is happy and player B there is always a war agains that....
The status quo of an ever so slowly stagnating nullsec is not good for the game and results in a decrease in the size of the playerbase. It's not good for business for this to continue, so CCP has to make sure that they make nullsec players (both current and potential residents) happy by throwing them a bone once in a while instead of throwing out random nerfs to things like anomalies, which highsec players hate because it is an isk faucet.
A good post. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
345
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Posted - 2012.12.24 05:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tesal wrote:La Nariz wrote:Tesal wrote:The only way to buff nullsec industry would be to raise prices, Jita is too efficient and keeps prices low. Nullsec industry does suck. But it will continue to suck even if manufacturing slots were increased. The only way to raise prices would be to nerf hi-sec severely and as I have stated previously, that comes with its own set of problems.
The risk in hi-sec is losing money on what you produce. This happens a lot. People produce at a loss. Its an economic risk, not a safety risk. Its market PvP.
I think trade is fine. How about nerfing refine rates in highsec, making it cost more to rent slots in highsec, allowing people to do something akin to suicide ganking a job, how about a tax on industry in highsec. Those are all very viable ideas that don't allow promoting mudflation via avoiding nerfs and only buffing things. Those things coupled with fixing outposts, stations per system, and the POS revamp have the potential of revitalizing industry in all sec areas. This is very relevant to you from the first page of the thread: 7) If High Sec were nerfed ship costs would increase massively and that is bad.
- The absolute price of ships doesnGÇÖt really matter, what matters is how much effort it takes to get set up with a ship that can compete, whether a battleship or a mining barge. With a more dynamic eco-system outside High Sec the barriers to entry for all professions would be lower and so the fact that an individual ship costs more would not matter. Your proposals, if they went forward, would definitely raise prices and null would consider itself buffed and hi-sec nerfed. I doubt it would have any effect on average players other than making things more expensive, so you have to grind more to afford the same thing. If hi-sec can't compete people won't build there any more. The people in hi-sec would have no choice other than to move to null to continue their industrial activities or unsub their industrial characters. Your proposals would also place industry firmly within the grasp of established nullsec alliances, shifting profits to them and away from hi-sec. I would view that as a negative thing. Nullsec is run by giant blue blobs and this would centralize even more power in their hands. In my view, nullsec is broken and this would make it even more broken. I would much rather have things the way they are than to change things as you have proposed. I would also ask the larger philosophical question why is it necessary to shift industry to nullsec. The same things would be produced and in some cases it would even be the same alts producing the same stuff. The only thing that would be different would be the location. There is nothing stopping anyone from producing the same goods in hi-sec. What is the overriding concern that would make it necessary to shift locations for production, according to the economy it doesn't matter where it gets produced as long as it gets produced.. In my view its an irrational desire that necessitates the switching of location. It would only serve to make logistics harder and goods more expensive. *edit* I don't buy the idea that making things more expensive doesn't matter.
Scared of a little competition?
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EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
345
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Posted - 2012.12.24 05:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
The current install cost to produce something in highsec is 1000 (one-thousand) isk. On top of that, the cost per hour is 333 (three-hundred-and-thirty-three) isk.
I seriously hope you don't think that if you spend any more than 5000 isk on producing a battleship, it would result in the destruction of the highsec economy and the game. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
347
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Posted - 2012.12.24 19:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:EI Digin wrote:The current install cost to produce something in highsec is 1000 (one-thousand) isk. On top of that, the cost per hour is 333 (three-hundred-and-thirty-three) isk.
I seriously hope you don't think that if you spend any more than 5000 isk on producing a battleship, it would result in the destruction of the highsec economy and the game. Do you believe any hi sec industry alt (of a null sec player) will bother moving off hi sec once he has to pay 5000 ISK instead of 1000? They'd have to pay 20M to be "incentivized" (as they say) to leave hi sec, that is a nerf of 2,000,000%!
Base industry costs are not the Jesus feature of nullsec industry, don't be ridiculous.
There is no one solution that will fix everything. Complex problems require complex solutions, which means that there must be a large variety of changes in order to solve everything. It's not a bad idea to tweak industry costs. It's not a bad idea to introduce a refinery tax in highsec. It's not a bad idea to introduce higher yield minerals in nullsec. It's not a bad idea to make stations in nullsec more useful to industry players. But it all has to come in a package of fixes, and not one of these fixes put to an extreme, like you have suggested. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
347
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Posted - 2012.12.24 21:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:So your 5k per battleship cost was a boutade. Ok.
Purely ideological arguments and unrealistic expectations? Just another day in general discussion. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
373
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Posted - 2012.12.28 07:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
The best thing about ruling Afghanistan is all of the opium you get to harvest. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
374
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Posted - 2012.12.29 01:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tesal wrote:Seems like a great big hassle to me. I would unsub my industrial character and let someone else do the grind. I make more money trading anyway. Please unsub, less competition means more money for me.
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EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
375
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Posted - 2012.12.29 02:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Even smart carebears might abhor the idea of being forced into null sec alliances (because once null sec would outcompete them AND have the best resources AND "the full game" that's what would just happen). Be it because they don't have the time to participate in them or because they got burned one time too many in there. They have to have another choice, else a portion of them may as well "make gameplay choices that are pocketbook-friendly" in the sense they stop feeding CCP with their pockets.
Another most delicate issue is the despise for industrialists that some null sec alliances show.
You can't demand every industrial to join CFC / HBC just so they can hope to not be treated like "alt worthy" persons. Dealing with those "classic" industrials despising alliances is one of the reasons for the above mentioned "smart carebears" to just give up on EvE. People have some pride, if the corp directors keep considering them crap it's not going to entice them to stay. Worst of all is the case when the industrial confesses he has NO PvP character, that's a granted, immediate kick. Having a PvP character was not a MUST when they were in hi sec, that's another way to lose people who enjoyed the crafting facet of EvE.
Also ATM there are some great issues at letting individuals set up their POSes in sov space, it has to be dealt with as well.
The reason some 0.0 alliances treat industrialists terribly is because industry in 0.0 is a joke and there is very little way for any group to get any sort of value from industrialists. There are a few industrial services that are highly coveted, like supercapital production or trustable jump freighter services, which gain the people who operate these services lots of prestige. Maybe if corps and alliances were able to gain from basic industry going on in their space they would rethink their current mindsets. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
379
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Posted - 2012.12.30 03:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
On the topic of jump freighters and easy movement, CCP could play with adjusting the relative invulnerability of jump and dock capable ships whose pilots know what they are doing. Instead of additional grind (more cynos) or additional isk cost (more fuel to move), we could try introducing some more risk. Jump beacons, and idiots in the past who did not follow the rulebook have provided a ton of content for fleets of all sizes. This of course has to come with other industry fixes or else the nullsec economy will break into pieces because of the current heavy emphasis on imports/exports. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
386
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Posted - 2012.12.30 19:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bump Truck wrote: Personally I think, if a big alliance wanted to, it could get big mining fleets going. I mean BIG.
You think TEST couldn't mine enough minerals if it was in their interests to do it?
If we were to do a serious TEST fleet broadcast for miners, or have a pre-planned mining week, I would gather we would get about 50-60 guys mining, most of them in the new Venture frigates or hilarious ships like the mining Rokh, and another 50 guys scouting/camping gates to defend them. It would be loads of fun (for the pvpers, because everyone in the universe would be descending upon us to kill our pinatas) but in practice you aren't going to get 256 man fleets full of miners running around the clock which would be required to become completely self-sufficient.
And you would need to pay them an inflated rate to get them to mine over doing anything else, and not do it too often or you'll burn people out. We might have 10000+ members, but that doesn't mean that we are all easily focused on doing things.
If the circumstances were very dire (we need to mine minerals to make battleships for the final timer tomorrow and there is nothing on market, and we can't move freighters anywhere), then I could see huge fleets happening for a very short period of time (maybe one or two ops) before people start getting sick of it.
This is likely true for any larger alliance within the CFC/HBC, because our leadership model does not work around forcing our people to do things and not very many people who live up here are interested in mining, even if it gets buffed, because of past experiences. |
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EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
388
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Posted - 2012.12.30 20:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mineral supply in nullsec right now is a chicken-and-egg problem. Nobody is going to import minerals unless they have a guaranteed buyer, and no one is building anything because there are no minerals on the market. Small-time industrialists are not interested in adding more tasks for themselves, or have the free isk/characters in order to build stuff, and high-scale industrialists who already have the supply line running don't want to bother supplying relatively few minerals for smalltimers because it isn't worth their time.
The easy solution is to make mining low-ends viable to mine in nullsec, by increasing their isk/hour rate so that people strip sites clean instead of cherry picking the good stuff then moving to the next system. Mining helps to provide minerals for small scale manufacturers, miners in nullsec cannot (and should not be able to) provide enough minerals to sustain supercapital building operations or massive fleet doctrine creation schemes. That's what highsec is for. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
388
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Posted - 2012.12.30 21:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:Cherry picking is once again a internal problem. If you can't manage your own people or they are willing to knock it off then get rid of them.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Simetraz wrote: And the idea that null can't provide enough minerals to build super capitals is completely false. And I know this because I used to build them.
Thanks for your anecdote, but in reality nobody does this. Just because you can run your people like slaves doing something mind-numbingly terrible and in the least efficient way possible doesn't mean everyone else has to do it. It's not good game design. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
402
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Posted - 2013.01.02 02:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tesal wrote:The HBC and CFC don't need, nor should they get, more power than they already have. By supporting the status quo you are supporting the lifestyle of large coalitions like the HBC and CFC. To that, I say thanks. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
403
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Posted - 2013.01.02 08:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:EI Digin wrote:Tesal wrote:The HBC and CFC don't need, nor should they get, more power than they already have. By supporting the status quo you are supporting the lifestyle of large coalitions like the HBC and CFC. To that, I say thanks. Yes, in fact diminishing returns should be put both in hi sec to prevent "newbies" making 3500 maelstrom at a time but also in null sec to prevent alliances from taking more than say 5% of the whole space.
Thanks for reading the thread |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
405
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Posted - 2013.01.02 08:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
you nullseccers are so entitled |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
406
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Posted - 2013.01.02 08:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:EI Digin wrote:you nullseccers are so entitled Can I be entitled... to you? <3
i never trust GOON |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
414
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Posted - 2013.01.03 21:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: For once, have the BALLS to take responsibility for your actions.
Sorry for being the most organized player group ever. Truly, being the best has been our downfall and players should never seek to play the game in its most optimal way, because it ruins it for everyone. |
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